MFF 110 - Alessandro Sartori (Zegna): «Changing menswear is like learning a foreign language»

The r(evolution), the sustainable #UseTheExisting commitment, the listing on the NYSE and the rebranding under a precise vision, "one label only". The new suit, luxury leisurewear and the stop to the use of fur. There are many new milestones in Zegna's long journey, a journey of 112 years that continues along a traced path, which today also becomes a graphic sign, defining a strong identity full of values. "A path worth taking", as Creative Director Alessandro Sartori told exclusively to MFF-Magazine For Fashion in an interview accompanied by special images of the first Zegna collection after its debut on Wall Street, ready to make history. The collective history of a Made-in-Italy brand that sets the standards, and that of the Group from Trivero, whose path takes life from the mountains and crosses the Oasi Zegna.

Feeding on the truth of founder Ermenegildo Zegna: "Create the future in the present by following your dreams". And the Zegna family never stops dreaming. "We were all very excited," Sartori stated, recalling the opening bell ceremony, "you could see how Gildo (Zegna, third generation of the family, President and CEO of the Ermenegildo Zegna Group, ed.) rang the bell, and you could see our faces. We were almost transported by happiness". Epic moments, like the many revealed by the designer. From the flashback to the first fashion show in New York for Z Zegna to the possibilities of the metaverse, the future of shows, digital integration, the hybridization of clothing and the great masters of the formal suit. Energy, not fears but doubts, risks and mistakes. Those mistakes that are needed.

It has been a year since Zegna's menswear reset, recombining "luxury craftsmanship and redefining constructions that free the man, while maintaining the brand's DNA". Where do you feel you are in this (r)evolution?

In the phase in which the project has been figured out, understood and assimilated. And today it is particularly pleasant to see certain generations starting to dress this way. The success of a project can be seen when you go to the store and you do not know the clients, but you see them choosing pieces and having the stylist help them complete their wardrobe with a very different attitude than in the past. The tops that match the bottoms in creating what we have called "new suits," the idea of having these same new suits that are not made from traditional jackets and pants, but from hybrid tops, overshirts, chore coats, jersey sweaters and outerwear sweaters, with the pants matching in colour and fabric.

This concept of hybrid is very interesting...

We started in 2016, so in reality the codes have entered and are penetrating the men's wardrobe. The manipulation of the material and the product has given us the opportunity to make new garments. That is because there are two things that have entered style: comfort and function. To get there, we hybridized garments or used materials that belong to other generations of products. And that gave us the opportunity to create some really new pieces.

How hard is it to change a "sacred monster" like men's suit?

It is like learning a foreign language. You study the modalities and when you get to the point where you can do it, it means you know this new language, you have its properties in your vocabulary. The first experiments resulted in small numbers and we worked mostly around the idea of the fashion show, then customers started approaching this type of product and we elaborated the formula by adding new content, also in terms of material. Then we added new models, hybridized the fabrics. The good thing today is that this suit kind of "breaks through" generations that had never worn a suit before. On the one hand there is a consumer who wear this new suit because he is tired with the old one, on the other hand there is a consumer who had never worn a suit before and who is starting now. He wears it with T-shirt and sneakers, and it is his first suit. So, it is actually a mean to work with tailoring for a generation not knowing tailoring.

Was it also Covid-19 that brought this desire for softness? To be stylish while comfortable, to wear suits indoors or outdoors?

Before Covid-19, who would wear their suit indoor? Nobody, you wore it if you had to go out for a meeting. Today, guys wear this type of product, go to the office and maybe sit at their desk, without necessarily meeting other people. They do it because it is a new way crossing sports with tailoring, or leisurewear with tailoring, resulting in a style that we have called “luxury leisurewear”.

The rebranding’s core was proposed on the occasion of the listing. You were in New York that day, ringing the bell with Gildo and Paolo Zegna, Andrea Bonomi, Sergio Ermotti and Thom Browne. What did you feel?

That was very exciting. I often use this statement for garments but not for emotions: "Those things which are so beautiful and unique that besides being indescribable from an emotional point of view, you can only experience once and only the first time". I am convinced that going there two or three times would not be the same. I am talking about the general emotion, when you walk into that huge, epic place, you only saw in movies. And you experience an epic moment as well, with Gildo taking this fantastic, crazy decision, and all of us super excited and happy.

Did you say something to each other on the way up to that balcony?

Gildo had made a beautiful speech, just before, telling us what had brought us there and some important things on values. Then we started our way up to this place, up that staircase to get to that balcony and I must say that only there, you actually realize the importance of the moment. And we were all agitated, but happy, not nervous. Agitated and happy, because it was a moment that we had always kind of waited for, but no one had ever thought to experience it. So, from Gildo to Thom, from Rodrigo (Bazan, CEO of Thom Browne, ed.) to Edo (Zegna, Gildo's son and Chief Marketing Digital and Sustainability Officer, ed.), we were all very excited.

What are the other such strong memories you cherish which are related to the fashion world?

The first Z Zegna fashion show in New York, because it was Zegna's first time and it was an official fashion week, the NYFW, which at the time included some very relevant names. It has been 15 years since then and 30 fashion shows, which is no small thing. That was an epic moment. I have also to mention the first fashion show marking the return to Zegna.

After your period at Berluti...

That was in January 2017, it was particularly exciting. In fact, I would put the meeting with Gildo as second-best moment of my career, when we both knew what we wanted but had not started talking about it yet.

A love story, basically...

It was the end of 2015, I then arrived in June the following year.

There was also that taste, perhaps developed in Paris, of walking runaways in crazy locations...

Epic locations and stories.

A Zegna family. Speaking of locations and fashion shows, we are now in a phygital moment, partly working via video, remotely, with perhaps some hints of live shows, as you did. Do you feel like going back to the physical?

Yes, but my point of view, obviously shared with Gildo and Edoardo, is that we have to follow marketing and digital, especially at a strategic level. So, the answer is: "Yes, but also thinking about the people at home". Today, it is not enough to do a physical show with one, two, three cameras and with a mix in the direction, recording the show and streaming it to the world, because we all went through that phase between 2015 and 2017. That is great, but it is no longer enough. Today, I have to give you content, because you have to be engaged and breathe the story and the emotion of the show, as the people sitting in the room do. And I am convinced that the shows will shrink in terms of number of people. In general, I imagine shows with fewer people in the room, especially compared to three or four years ago. So not 1,000 people, but 300 attending the two live shows. To go back to the 2019 format tout court would be a shame.

Is there more planning in your work as a stylist as well?

A different, deeper work. Definitely planned, but it was also planned before. What changes is that it is deeper now because I have to add layers with the film in mind. We still do the editing, the styling, the casting and the fitting, so the process does not take ten days but twenty: ten days are what we needed before and we use the other ten for the production of content, film and photography.

Returning to digital technology, you were one of the first, already during your Z Zegna years, to identify the need for it and its possibilities, almost going against the tide...

I explain this as an expert in the field. I love metatheatre, a classical interactive representation of a certain type of story, where the most epic emblem is represented by certain plays, but also a film like Dogville that represented that type of art in a cinematographic version. In my opinion, storytelling done in front of a live audience using prepared media and pieces happening in that moment —which is metatheatre— represents the ultimate in theatrical art. And most importantly, for the way I see it and feel about theatre art, it is very much in the cards for a Maison like ours. From there, we can think of a whole series of concepts that can be transported to the world of digital, and then a fusion between this type of concept, which is very classic, and what tomorrow is. It means taking these situations and projecting, reconstructing, reworking them and making them our own language. And this fashion film demonstrated that.

And what about the metaverse?

It fascinates me, I think it is the future of certain brands and in a way, the future of all of us for certain aspects of our lives. Not all brands today are fit to take that path without having made other steps first. I see some people talk about it but they do not come from a long digital journey that takes them there, they just hear about it and they throw themselves into it, while other brands are doing a fantastic job.

Bernard Arnault, Chairman and CEO of LVMH, stated that we need to take time. Many spoke of the metaverse comparing it to Second Life, but today there are cryptocurrencies...

We all entered Second Life at the beginning of the 2000s...

And did we get out of it at all?

It seemed to be our parallel life and after a minute we realized that it did not work. However, there are some very interesting aspects which can be made immediately tangible. For example, entering a store you see clothes, but without the fashion lover’s mind, it is hard to imagine them on you. We could work increasingly to make people approach fashion digitally and make fashion approach people. Let us not say: "I am going to throw myself into the metaverse because it is a new business", otherwise it would be the same as for Second Life. It will take time and the right maturity to get there, but we need a path and some stages are still missing. We are interested in that but we do not want to waste it.

So we should wait a bit. You mentioned the "new suit" earlier, but in the history of fashion, who were the pillars of men’s suits?

The Italian and English tailors, in the 40s and 50s. Many unknown tailors of course, but also the great tailors of the Roman, Neapolitan and Milanese schools of those years, from Caraceni onwards. Then Armani, in the 80s, because he changed the style and revolutionized the way of wearing the suit, both in terms of materials and in terms of fluidity in the look. Moreover, today I am noticing some very interesting things and I believe to be part of that generation which is innovating the suit.

One year ago, you stated that you would have never dealt with womenswear. But there were a few women in the show, why?

I see that men's tailoring, especially this new suit, is increasingly suitable both for men and women. However, we do not design thinking about women, we have men in our mind, their lives and their style. But I think that some garments, especially tops, are particularly suitable for a certain type of woman as well.

Was there a moment you saw a woman wearing Zegna and you felt proud of it?

People I do not know that I saw going out of the store.

Are non-celebrities the new celebrities?

Exactly.

How much energy does it take to make all this changes in menswear? It takes a lot of determination...

It takes endless energy, but also a lot of passion, so eventually it is a good energy. It is not one consuming you, but one fuelling you. In that sense it is like a fly-wheel rather than a candle. But the most beautiful thing is that if you get into people's heads and you design the collections like they were a movie script, and I always imagine them that way, there is not a season followed by another season. It is a seamless unicum: a story evolving like a movie with chapters.

Do you like fashion?

I just love it.

Are you afraid of not being fashionable?

No, because I am so into it that I do not ask myself the question. Probably, if one day I questioned myself about it, I would start to be afraid of it.

You give the idea of being very self-confident, which is important in your role. Have you ever been afraid?

I have never been afraid, I have been doubtful. I remember the phone call with Gildo at the outbreak of Covid-19. "Should we do the show or not?" We decided, unanimously, to go ahead anyway. Then we came up with this idea of the phygital show, with a recorded part and a live part, but we did the show anyway. The change in the uniform and the creation of this new suit were decisions supported by ideas and reasoning, but there is always the doubt that it might not work. So more doubt, but not fear. And I am saying it honestly, I would not struggle to say that I have been afraid.

But you have many responsibilities, there will be times when you have to stop, breathe, and ask yourself, "What do we do?”

Since there is a lot of creativity on the designed story that it is working, that probably helps me to have confidence.

Having a very clear path in your mind is what helps you to not have doubts?

Obviously, you must use some expedients, according to the situation you are in, but also based on the experiments you do in which you notice what works and what does not work. Be careful, you will make mistakes, but it is part of the creative process. Not making mistakes would mean not being creative all the way through, because you would be traveling safely. You see it every day, from design to fittings, to creating a script, to fashion shows, styling, manipulating materials to create new ones: only if you keep pushing yourself and you are never satisfied will you get to the point in which you made n-mistakes, but you found the right formula.

Do mistakes help?

They help you to be even more creative. (All rights reserved)